The "tea" was flowing

 

It is always interesting when some who are in government like to condemn the institution in which they belong.

Assemblyman Rick Merkt, the recent gubernatorial candidate, was one of the speakers at today’s tea party on the Morristown Green. He said nothing is as dangerous as people depending on the government to do things for them.  I must disagree; I want the government to use its power to do things that make life easier and better for me and everyone else in the country. 

Scott Rosenbush, the mayor of Morris Township, said, for instance, that government should not be in the medical business. That drew cheers, given the current debate on health care. When I asked Rosenbush when he descended from the podium, if he wanted to eliminate Medicare, he of course said no.  He can be excused for getting carried away with the rhetotic.

One may ask the mayor if he really thinks government should do nothing, why doesn’t Morris Township, for instance, stop collecting garbage and picking up leaves? Why bother maintaining parks? Now, an answer would be that the bad guy here is the federal government. That’s what a municipal official would say, but the extreme anti-government mantra really can’t be separated into different levels.

Much like the last tea party, this one drew an assortment of people angry about something — and, of course, everything was the fault of the government. Some didn’t like the stimulus package, some wanted no change in health care, some saw protecting our air as a communist plot, Really?  One of the speakers denouncing “cap and trade” legislation spoke of a mythical supporter as having posters of Marx and maybe even Che Gueverra on his wall. (He forgot about Trotsky).

Another speaker ridiculed food stamps,  blissfully ignorant, one presumes, of their significance to many senior citizens on fixed income.

One gentleman was convinced, as his sign indicated, that Barack Obama was born in Kenya. Those who put stock in such conspiracy theories are impervious to logic. In their minds, the debunking of this Internet rumor, which has been done many times, proves how far reaching the conspiracy is. 

The warm-up act included guitarist David D’Amico of Andover who said those over 65 should be excluded from paying property taxes. Yep, just forget about the fact they own property. Rosenbush admitted that wasn’t a good idea. 

D’Amico wondered where Gov. Corzine was. 

“Where is Jon, he was invited,” he said. The governor was not there.

But neither was Chris Christie, his Republican opponent.

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About fsnowflack
Fred Snowflack was editorial page editor and a political columnist for the Daily Record of Morristown for almost 12 years. He has won numerous awards for editorial and column writing from the New Jersey Press Association and has written a blog on county and state politics for the last three years. He lives in Ledgewood in Morris County.

41 Responses to The "tea" was flowing

  1. jimmycat says:

    Also, interesting that these tea parties are sponsored by groups like the Club for Growth that still advocate Social Security reform with personal retirement accounts as the solution. Another question for participants, especially seniors, is: How would they have fared in today’s economy if the Bush administration had successfully achieved that policy goal? I don’t think these people are stupid — just not thinking it through.

  2. jc says:

    Fred, tell me this: if a teenager goes to the NJ dmv on Speedwell Ave, can he get a drivers license with an internet picture of a birth certificate? Of course not. So why is it harder to get a drivers license in NJ than it is to prove one of the requirements of being a natural born citizen? Also, Fred, tell me why the media, yourself included in the club obviously, doesn’t seem to realize that there is a real discrepancy between what the term natural born citizen meant to the authors of the Constitution and what the everyday uninformed US citizen ‘thinks’ it means? No one HAS debunked the questions surrounding Obama’s legitimacy. There is a case against Obama, Congress, Pelosi and Cheney right now for failing to respond to the issue. There was no DEBUNKING, only irresponsibility and blind adoration of Barack Obama, the affirmative action president. Have you honestly STUDIED this issue? I think not. Show me you are worth your salt, Fred, I dare you.

  3. michael says:

    (a) if we’d gone to personal accounts 30 years ago, seniors would have lost about 50% of their millions; we’d all be crying, but better off by far than in a system which is, essentially, bankrupt, and the only assets of which are the promises made by the people to tax themselves. Cute, no? The government funds a program with IOUs which it will make our kids and grandkids pay off.

    (b) if you really want government to use its power to make everything easier and better, I suggest you invest in magic wands.

    The key word is “everyone”. Government can’t provide a benefit for you without stealing from me. So, instead of asking for something which belongs to me, insist on something which belongs to us all: FREEDOM.

  4. overtherme@yahoo.com says:

    Funny, this group the MORRISTOWN TEA PARTY ORG A NON PROFIT ORGANIZATION took donations and said it funds these ‘EVENTS” What did it cost. Where is their P & L? Where is their 1023 and WHAT CHARITY are they tied to? They are NOT REGISTERED AS a NON profit according to http://www.guidestar.com. This is what the state and IRS uses to check non profit. The dept of Consumer affairs does not have them registered to do fundraisers in the state. Who is the attorney that owns this corporation? He was the MC at the event. Notice, they did not have any people there to hear them from gov’t. The have never READ the constitution but yet complain about it with no known facts. As Fred s eloquently puts it, it serves NO PURPOSE. They should be asking DEMOCRATS to come to try and change their minds but instead they stand around complaining about the gov’t instead of doing something for it. NOT 1 PERSON THERE knows about the healthcare plan nor do they have a clue about TAXES. Obama? Hate to tell all, BHO would not be in the ‘BIG HOUSE” if the people were not for him and voted him in (you can’t fix stupid) Hate to tell these people that say he has no birth certificate from the US. Garbage. He had to. He was vetted at some point. Rumor will keep going around. These Tea groups are sort of like the government staff meetings monthly. A bitch session that wastes time and accomplishes nothing. This one sadly takes donations claiming to be a non profit and states om their website. http://www.morristownteaparty.org that the are a NON PROFIT and uses money for whatever. Sad that stupid people give their money away to people that claim they are not making money.. Last time they did this the money disappeared. The story of it disappearing is on the website provided.”A felon took it” Looks like they are a real credible crew. More like a Motley Crue doing what they are screaming the gov’t is doing to them! Sick pups.

  5. steven daniels says:

    Another day of people out with nothing better to do. Perhaps, they should actually study what they are speaking about before they go around carrying on about it. Between all of the group there they may have the mental capacity of my cat.

  6. overthereme@yahoo.com says:

    Funny, this group the MORRISTOWN TEA PARTY ORG A NON PROFIT ORGANIZATION took donations and said it funds these ‘EVENTS” What did it cost. Where is their P & L? Where is their 1023 and WHAT CHARITY are they tied to? They are NOT REGISTERED AS a NON profit according to http://www.guidestar.com. This is what the state and IRS uses to check non profit. The dept of Consumer affairs does not have them registered to do fundraisers in the state. Notice, they did not have any people there to hear them from gov’t. They have never READ the constitution but yet complain about it with no known facts. It serves NO PURPOSE. They should be asking DEMOCRATS to come to try and change their minds but instead they stand around complaining about the gov’t instead of doing something for it. NOT 1 PERSON THERE knows about the healthcare plan nor do they have a clue about TAXES. Obama? Hate to tell all, BHO would not be in the ‘BIG HOUSE” if the people were not for him and voted him in (you can’t fix stupid) Hate to tell these people that say he has no birth certificate from the US. Garbage. He had to. He was vetted at some point. Rumor will keep going around. These Tea groups are sort of like the government staff meetings monthly. A bitch session that wastes time and accomplishes nothing. This one sadly takes donations claiming to be a non profit and states om their website. http://www.morristownteaparty.org that the are a NON PROFIT and uses money for whatever. Sad that stupid people give their money away to people that claim they are not making money.. Last time they did this the money disappeared. The story of it disappearing is on the website provided.”A felon took it” Looks like they are a real credible crew. More like a Motley Crue doing what they are screaming the gov’t is doing to them!

  7. Mike says:

    What a gross waste of time. Scream about the gov’t for nothing. These people should try abiding by the law themselves.

  8. Judith says:

    Funny, this group the MORRISTOWN TEA PARTY ORG A NON PROFIT ORGANIZATION took donations and said it funds these ‘EVENTS” What did it cost. Where is their P & L? Where is their 1023 and WHAT CHARITY are they tied to? They are NOT REGISTERED AS a NON profit according to http://www.guidestar.com. This is what the state and IRS uses to check non profit. The dept of Consumer affairs does not have them registered to do fundraisers in the state. Notice, they did not have any people there to hear them from gov’t. They have never READ the constitution but yet complain about it with no known facts. It serves NO PURPOSE. They should be asking DEMOCRATS to come to try and change their minds but instead they stand around complaining about the gov’t instead of doing something for it. NOT 1 PERSON THERE knows about the healthcare plan nor do they have a clue about TAXES. Obama? Hate to tell all, BHO would not be in the ‘BIG HOUSE” if the people were not for him and voted him in (you can’t fix stupid) Hate to tell these people that say he has no birth certificate from the US. Garbage. He had to. He was vetted at some point. Rumor will keep going around. These Tea groups are sort of like the government staff meetings monthly. A bitch session that wastes time and accomplishes nothing. This one sadly takes donations claiming to be a non profit and states om their website. http://www.morristownteaparty.org that the are a NON PROFIT and uses money for whatever. Sad that stupid people give their money away to people that claim they are not making money.. Last time they did this the money disappeared. The story of it disappearing is on the website provided.”A felon took it” Looks like they are a real credible crew. More like a Motley Crue doing what they are screaming the gov’t is doing to them!

  9. overthereme says:

    Why is it that “freedom of speech” seems to be “who chooses what gets heard”

  10. overthereme says:

    Funny, this group the MORRISTOWN TEA PARTY ORG A NON PROFIT ORGANIZATION took donations and said it funds these ‘EVENTS” What did it cost. Where is their P & L? Where is their 1023 and WHAT CHARITY are they tied to? They are NOT REGISTERED AS a NON profit according to guidestar.com This is what the state and IRS uses to check non profit. The dept of Consumer affairs does not have them registered to do fundraisers in the state. Notice, they did not have any people there to hear them from gov’t. They have never READ the constitution but yet complain about it with no known facts. It serves NO PURPOSE. They should be asking DEMOCRATS to come to try and change their minds but instead they stand around complaining about the gov’t instead of doing something for it. NOT 1 PERSON THERE knows about the healthcare plan nor do they have a clue about TAXES. Obama? Hate to tell all, BHO would not be in the ‘BIG HOUSE” if the people were not for him and voted him in (you can’t fix stupid) Hate to tell these people that say he has no birth certificate from the US. Garbage. He had to. He was vetted at some point. Rumor will keep going around. These Tea groups are sort of like the government staff meetings monthly. A bitch session that wastes time and accomplishes nothing. This one sadly takes donations claiming to be a non profit and states om their website. That the are a NON PROFIT and uses money for whatever. Sad that stupid people give their money away to people that claim they are not making money.. Last time they did this the money disappeared. The story of it disappearing is on the website provided.”A felon took it” Looks like they are a real credible crew. More like a Motley Crue doing what they are screaming the gov’t is doing to them!

  11. Nancy Bozza says:

    Maybe you should have talked to the organizaters. We ARE a non-profit organization and HAVE applied for non-profit status. However, the process takes about a year! Each event costs about $5,000 (vendor licenses, insurance, music, porta-potties, etc). We are NOT a funded organization like ACORN and each organization member and volunteer fund these expenses out of our own personal pockets. You should be ashamed of yourself for spreading false informaiton about an organization you know nothing about (and obviously disagree with) – something our Government is very good about – spreading false and scary information in order to get the support they want. I can’t afford the high taxes that are sure to come and I don’t run up bills I can’t afford to pay (like our Government is doing).

  12. Bob Costas says:

    Snowflack your opinions are worthless. Just like you thought there wouldn’t be many people on the Green today and at least 3000 people were on the Green. And Dave D’Amico was right. If we passed the Fair Tax they would only have to pay on their consumption, which would probably be much smaller. But your right Flack, it’s better to scam them with a “property tax rebate” which is really just a shell game. And it’s not that people don’t want to pay taxes (are you thick?) it’s that the burden is out of control. Can’t you see life long NJ residents are leaving because of it? And “overthereme” is practicing law without a license. But deosn’t know the diffeence between non-profit and Tax exempt. Every condo Assoc. in NJ is non-profit. They’re not on guidestar. Are they not condo association? Moron!!

  13. overthereme says:

    Truth hurts Nancy. You are NOT A NON PROFIT. You may have applied for one but your website says you are a NJ NON PROFIT. If it takes a year to become one how can you claim you are? According to the IRS you post it as Non profit status pending. The group started in March. If it took a year how can you claim you are a state of NJ non profit? The sec of states office says you can name yourself one but that does not make it one.

    GuideStar is the complete source of information about U.S. nonprofits. Search our database of 1.8 million IRS-recognized organizations to find a charity, benchmark your nonprofit’s performance, research the sector, and more.

    Mr Costas you are incorrect about Guidestar,

    “Congress and the Internal revenue service have determined that only specific types of organizations can qualify to be nonprofit, or tax exempt organizations. (“Tax exempt is the term used for nonprofit by the IRS and most other government agencies.)
    Mr Costas, Here is the ONLY LEGAL UNITED STATES NON PROFITS AND THIS GROUP IS NOT…..

  14. overthereme says:

    * Certain corporations organized under an Act of Congress
    * Certain corporations organized and operated exclusively for:
    o Religious purposes
    o Charitable purposes
    o Scientific purposes
    o Purposes of testing for public safety
    o Literary purposes
    o Educational purposes
    o Artistic purposes
    o Health care and public health
    o Fostering national or international amateur sports competition
    o The prevention of cruelty to children or animals
    * Civic leagues or organizations not organized for profit but operated exclusively for the promotion of social welfare/charity
    * Local associations of employees, the membership of which is limited to the employees of a designated person or persons in a particular municipality, and the net earnings of which are devoted exclusively to charitable, educational, or recreational purposes
    * Labor organizations
    * Agricultural or horticultural organizations
    * Business leagues
    * Chambers of commerce
    * Real-estate boards
    * Boards of trade
    * Professional football leagues
    * Clubs organized for pleasure, recreation, and other nonprofitable purposes
    * Certain fraternal beneficiary societies, orders, or associations
    * Voluntary employees’ beneficiary associations providing for the payment of life, sick, accident, or other benefits to the members of such association or their dependents or designated beneficiaries
    * Teachers’ retirement fund associations of a purely local
    * Certain benevolent life insurance associations of a purely local character
    * Cemetery companies owned and operated exclusively for the benefit of their members or which are not operated for profit
    * Corporations chartered solely for the purpose of the disposal of bodies by burial or cremation which are not permitted by their charter to engage in any business not necessarily incident to that purpose
    * Credit unions without capital stock organized and operated for mutual purposes and without profit
    * Insurance companies or associations other than life if the net written premiums for the taxable year do not exceed $350,000
    * Corporations organized by certain association for the purpose of financing the ordinary crop operations of such associations
    * A trust or trusts forming part of a plan providing for the payment of supplemental unemployment compensation benefits
    * A post or organization of past or present members of the Armed Forces of the United States, or an auxiliary unit or society of, or a trust or foundation for, any such post or organization
    * Legal services corporations
    * Trusts for the purpose of satisfying liability for claims under Black Lung Acts
    * Multi-employer trusts created to pay any amount described in section 4223(c) or (h) of the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974
    * Corporations or trusts organized for the exclusive purposes of acquiring and holding title to real property for the benefit of a qualified pension, profit sharing, or stock bonus plan

  15. overthereme says:

    Mr Costas,
    Which of these is the Morristown Tea Party? None of these. IRS.gov is a wonderful thing. Your stating a condo assn. Mine is a non profit also. We are indeed listed in the Guidestar website. You are probably looking under a different name as mine is associated with the association. I am waiting to see your retort.
    You are quick to spew how I did not know about Non profits. Perhaps you can answer me which one is it. This came from the irs.gov website.

    Again this group claims they are a non profit. The name it says is a NJ non profit BUT it is not registered with the IRS as one and Nancy up there states you ARE ONE BUT you are applying. Kind of like you are “a driver” since in a year you will be able to get a permit to drive? Or do you advertise you are a doctor your first year of med school?

    You can’t fix stupid. You need to read. Both of you. Legal advice nah. Taxes, yes I know a lot about them. International tariff also.

    I expect Mr Costas and Nancy here to come back with garbage. Now that you have the IRS.gov website posted here and also guidestar tell me HOW is it that in 2 months time you are a NON PROFIT ORGANIZATION (The IRS has no record of the approval as of 7/1/09. You can log onto their site. Feel free.

  16. overthereme says:

    You asked about condos here you go
    Sec. 528. Certain homeowners associations
    TITLE 26, Subtitle A, CHAPTER 1, Subchapter F, PART VII, Sec. 528.
    STATUTE

    (a) General rule
    A homeowners association (as defined in subsection (c)) shall be subject to taxation under this subtitle only to the extent provided in this section. A homeowners association shall be considered an organization exempt from income taxes for the purpose of any law which refers to organizations exempt from income taxes.
    (b) Tax imposed
    A tax is hereby imposed for each taxable year on the homeowners association taxable income of every homeowners association. Such tax shall be equal to 30 percent of the homeowners association taxable income (32 percent of such income in the case of a timeshare association).
    (c) Homeowners association defined
    For purposes of this section –

    (1) Homeowners association
    The term “homeowners association” means an organization which is a condominium management association, a residential real estate management association, or a timeshare association if –

    (A) such organization is organized and operated to provide for the acquisition, construction, management, maintenance, and care of association property,
    (B) 60 percent or more of the gross income of such organization for the taxable year consists solely of amounts received as membership dues, fees, or assessments from –

    (i) owners of residential units in the case of a condominium management association,
    (ii) owners of residences or residential lots in the case of a residential real estate management association, or
    (iii) owners of timeshare rights to use, or timeshare ownership interests in, association property in the case of a timeshare association,

    (C) 90 percent or more of the expenditures of the organization for the taxable year are expenditures for the acquisition, construction, management, maintenance, and care of association property and, in the case of a timeshare association, for activities provided to or on behalf of members of the association,
    (D) no part of the net earnings of such organization inures (other than by acquiring, constructing, or providing management, maintenance, and care of association property, and other than by a rebate of excess membership dues, fees, or assessments) to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual, and
    (E) such organization elects (at such time and in such manner as the Secretary by regulations prescribes) to have this section apply for the taxable year.

    (2) Condominium management association
    The term “condominium management association” means any organization meeting the requirement of subparagraph (A) of paragraph (1) with respect to a condominium project substantially all of the units of which are used by individuals for residences.
    (3) Residential real estate management association
    The term “residential real estate management association” means any organization meeting the requirements of subparagraph (A) of paragraph (1) with respect to a subdivision, development, or similar area substantially all the lots or buildings of which may only be used by individuals for residences.
    (4) Timeshare association
    The term “timeshare association” means any organization (other than a condominium management association) meeting the requirement of subparagraph (A) of paragraph (1) if any member thereof holds a timeshare right to use, or a timeshare ownership interest in, real property constituting association property.
    (5) Association property
    The term “association property” means –

    (A) property held by the organization,
    (B) property commonly held by the members of the organization,
    (C) property within the organization privately held by the members of the organization, and
    (D) property owned by a governmental unit and used for the benefit of residents of such unit. In the case of a timeshare association, such term includes property in which the timeshare association, or members of the association, have rights arising out of recorded easements, covenants, or other recorded instruments to use property related to the timeshare project.

    (d) Homeowners association taxable income defined

    (1) Taxable income defined
    For purposes of this section, the homeowners association taxable income of any organization for any taxable year is an amount equal to the excess (if any) of –

    (A) the gross income for the taxable year (excluding any exempt function income), over
    (B) the deductions allowed by this chapter which are directly connected with the production of the gross income (excluding exempt function income), computed with the modifications provided in paragraph (2).

    (2) Modifications
    For purposes of this subsection –

    (A) there shall be allowed a specific deduction of $100,
    (B) no net operating loss deduction shall be allowed under section 172, and
    (C) no deduction shall be allowed under part VIII of subchapter B (relating to special deductions for corporations).

    (3) Exempt function income
    For purposes of this subsection, the term “exempt function income” means any amount received as membership dues, fees, or assessments from –

    (A) owners of condominium housing units in the case of a condominium management association,
    (B) owners of real property in the case of a residential real estate management association, or
    (C) owners of timeshare rights to use, or timeshare ownership interests in, real property in the case of a timeshare association.

  17. overthereme says:

    The New Jersey Dept of consumer affairs also confirms that this organization was not a registered NON PROFIT. You can find it on their website also.
    njconsumeraffairs.gov

    The person that registered this CORPORATION as a non profit chose it on the website, and pulled down a window and chose non profit. They did not have a non profit cause. Would you like a copy of the corporation certificate or can you look it up the same way I did?

  18. overthereme says:

    Mr Costas should take a course called the CPA course.It helps. As for the name calling seems like the “moron” is not me! Sore loser. Maybe you should enroll in a THING THAT TAXPAYERS PAY FOR, SCHOOL!

    I think that you need to really review what is posted and answer which you are and explain after calling me the moron which non profit you are here. Still waiting? Guess now all you can do is name call since you seem to know NOTHING about Non profits nor taxes nor any IRS status or filings.

  19. overthereme says:

    Nancy,
    You state “You should be ashamed of yourself for spreading false informaiton about an organization you know nothing about (and obviously disagree with)

    I was in the group and know enough to not donate to an organization that advertised it is something it is not. The information I gave is correct. I hope you did your homework so you look like you know what you are doing.

    Bob-This is not legal advice. These are facts that are avail to the public to check out before you donate to PROTECT people. This is to let people KNOW WHO THEY ARE GIVING TO. I guess you are one of these people Mr Snowflack a good man was talking about!

  20. Nancy Bozza says:

    Lisa, you arren’t worth my time

  21. overthereme says:

    That is because you see I am correct and you are WRONG and feeding the incorrect information. Thank you for making sure I am correct as usual. You look great now. A mind is a terrible thing to waste Nancy!

  22. Ed Ramirez says:

    Fred

    Should the government give you one thousand dollards to teach you how to save money. Should the government give you 4500 dollars to buy a new car. How about giving you a fine if you do not want to buy health care coverage.

  23. overthereme says:

    Ed, works well. This would cover only a portion of the costs you will incur tot he hospitals and tax payers if one has no health insurance. If the gov’t keeps giving it away, then it will sink us further into the hole then we already are.

    Perhaps Ed, if people were RESPONSIBLE and saved money for a disaster when one loses a job then they could pay their health insurance. Rule of thumb is to not spend more then 30% of your gross on mortgage/rent. The average person has spent 65-70 % and therefore can not save. No one wants to take responsibility. Maybe people should think of these things before they end up the way they are. People need their Lexus, 10 LCD tv’s a house they can’t afford and say, use plastic, pay later when I have it. Not working…

  24. Robb Pearson says:

    Fred:

    This “Tea Party” sounds like nothing more than a “ProAmerica” rally dressed in slightly modified attire. And I’ll bet that among the attenders yesterday were a great many of the same people who attended my ProAmerica rally in July of 2007: people with a peculiar attraction to public political demonstrations (and an axe to grind . . . any axe), ready to ardently cheer on vainglorious speakers who shout empty rhetoric that somehow makes all in attendance feel relevant.

    At my ProAmerica rally we thoroughly diminished those who were different from us (i.e., foreign, non-English-speaking, non-legally resident, and oh yes . . . poor) whose lives we in no way understood or whose stories we did not know. And, of course, assigned blame to the government for its sins of omission while denouncing counter-protestors as communists and Marxists (hello Mr. Cresitello).

    The “Tea Party” — assuming with all confidence, Fred, that your assessment of it is correct — sounds no different: knocking the poor (by ridiculing food stamps), spouting conspiracy theories (a rally staple), a call-out on Marxists (was Donald there?) . . . all to the utter ignorance of the complex nuances of the very system they decry yet at the same time happily rely on and benefit from.

    From others I have spoken to, both in NJ and PA, it appears the “Tea Party” motif everywhere is, for those with a far-far-right-leaning political bent, nothing more than another opportunity to knock others down to feel tall.

  25. Ed Ramirez says:

    You cannot legislate irresponsibleness you cannot legislate morality, you can only punish infraction of established laws. More laws more punishment more laws more punishment, you get the picture.

  26. overthereme says:

    Ed,
    I wish you could legislate stupidity. You are a smart cookie. I guess you see that this did nothing more then take money from people the same way they scream that the government takes money from them unjustly. Sad that there seems to be NO punishment for it. These people holding these “complaining rallies” with no clue on what they are complaining about should talk to people like Mrs Ramirez OR their local legislators. I am sure Rod, Joe, Jay, Alex or Mrs R would have gladly gotten on a soapbox for this group had they showed them that they were doing what they claimed. Again, no punishment nor people being held accountable for their actions. That is far worse then the cause they are screaming about.

    Fiscally responsible? These nutjobs are screaming the gov’t is robbing them and they can’t afford to live anymore? But they can give thousands of dollars to a group that has no cause nor validity? I still have not seen anything from this rally that accomplished anything. You are around in the Repub forum also. Have you heard that these Tea rallies have made changes and are doing “good things to change the way the current admin is handling things?” Is the money being raised changing things? Just curious.

  27. overthereme says:

    Robb Pearson,
    This may be one of the greatest things I have seen written in 44 years
    “ready to ardently cheer on vainglorious speakers who shout empty rhetoric that somehow makes all in attendance feel relevant.” You are a genius sir!

  28. Ed Ramirez says:

    Overthereme

    If Americans of Old had your attitude we would still be singing God Save the Queen. These Tea parties in and of themselves will do little but the fact that people are rallying is a very significant item, it shows that the American people are coming together and that will be a good thing come election day. Wait until November 2010 when the makeup of congress is changed substantially. That will send a message to the Obama administration that it has little support for turning America into a socialist country. For raising taxes and establishing a nanny state agency to give money to people to buy cars and to taxes the people that have the audacity to use energy.

  29. overthereme says:

    Ed,
    The rallying is one thing and it still does nothing. It is the money being given and what is being done with it. This “rally” is doing nothing but the same thing that the gov’t is. Taking money and using it for what they choose. The advertising of this group as a Non profit was going on for weeks before and many people give donations since they think that the $ is being used for something that is “non profit” which I stated above. That is not what these people should be doing. Today ironically it seems that the NON PROFIT claim on their website has left. Also the fact that the 5k collected last rally DISAPPEARED. How can taxes be paid on that? Called bad debt write off? Now the gov’t sucks it up. That raises one’s taxes. Makes me sick.

  30. jc says:

    Robb

    I hope that everyone here who has bothered to read your rambling is aware that it is MERE speculation. Until you laboriously record the data on every person that attends a particular tea party you have nothing to talk about except your own experience in 2007. It would not surprise me to find that you believe in global warming with the kind of logic you appear to be using.

    The people who organize and attend Tea Parties have never done so before this time. They have never protested before, but they have been led to believe that this is way to counteract the dangerous movement away from individual freedom that is now reaching new heights. The Tea party movement started from a rant. It was not a well thought out plan of action at the inception. It failed to have a significant enough on Congress who went ahead and passed the cap and trade bill last week.

    They are not against the poor or immigrants. They are against a system that rewards failure instead of success. This is something everyone (except anyone in the US government) learned in Psych 101: put a rat in a box and give him a reward for doing nothing and he either keeps doing nothing or KEEPS DOING what it THINKS he is doing when the reward comes. So if in the rat’s mind he got rewarded for ‘peeing’ then he will ‘pee’ to get a reward. Why learn a new trick (go to work to earn money) when he is rewarded for doing nothing?

    That you don’t know the difference between insensitivity to the plight of the poor and the immigrant and dissatisfaction with a SYSTEM that keeps them at a disadvantage, a SYSTEM that institutionalizes the problem rather than solves it belies your bias.

    The good intentions of these tea partiers, however, does not excuse the organizers from conducting their affairs according to the letter of the law. If they believe in the rule of law, they should follow it. If they believe in the Constitution, they should honor the laws of the state where they live. If they believe in HONESTY, they should be HONEST in their affairs.

  31. jimmycat says:

    “dangerous movement away from individual freedom”
    “turning America into a socialist country”
    “establishing a nanny state”

    Sounds like Rush may be contributing to this blog or maybe Joe McCarthy has been resurrected?

  32. jimmycat says:

    RE: “But neither was Chris Christie, his Republican opponent.”

    Christie’s not stupid either; he knows which groups to distance himself from. It’s just like his taking down the “Shared Values” section on his web site due to “technical reason.” This was the section of the site that clearly defined his positions against a woman’s right to choose and gay marriage. These may not be the issues that are most important to those who attend tea parties, but for some of us, they are extremely critical.

  33. jc says:

    Or maybe there are actually some citizens in the US (and NJ!) who prefer individual responsibility over government control of one’s life! Probably the majority!

  34. jimmycat says:

    jc: If you “prefer individual responsibility over government control of one’s life,” then I assume you support a woman’s right to choose, which is essentially a privacy issue. Or is an exception?

  35. jc says:

    I do believe that the government has the right to put me in prison if I were to take the life of another human being… no matter HOW I do it.

    I do believe that man’s fundamental nature includes the choice to take responsibility for his actions. He can choose to be responsible or choose to abdicate responsibility for his actions. If a man and woman choose to engage in activity that may result in pregnancy, they should do so being prepared for the consequences. If they choose to kill the person created by their actions, then they should go to jail for murder. Why should murder of an innocent be any less illegal than murdering an NFL quarterback?

  36. jimmycat says:

    jc:
    What if a woman does not “choose to engage in activity that may result in pregnancy?”

    What if one does not believe that the “innocent” in its early stages is a “person created by their actions?”

  37. overthereme says:

    Jimmycat and JC ,
    should a woman be told by the government if she is raped and becomes pregnant, to give birth to the child and carry it for 9 months? No a woman should not have that albatross around her neck! She should have the choice to terminate the horror. As for the people that will scream “adoption is the answer” before you chime in, do you know how much money it costs to adopt an American child and how hard it is? Also should the woman have to live 9 months with the child of the rapist that scarred her for life growing inside of her, feeding off of her? NO she should not.

  38. Robb Pearson says:

    overthereme . . .

    I appreciate the sentiment, though I think the genius award definitely belongs to someone more worthy of it. *smile*

    jc . . .

    Do I believe in global warming? Of course I do. Even Newt Gingrich believes in global warming (see Boston Globe article of 11 April 2007). But global warming isn’t the issue here.

    Your effort to extol the virtues of the “we’re against the system not the people” argument falls flat on its face by mere virtue of your having analogized the poor with “rats in a box”.

    So much for sensitivity to the poor and the immigrant.

  39. overthereme says:

    Robb,
    It was a great one liner and you did make this person SMILE 🙂

    “So much for sensitivity to the poor and the immigrant.”
    If they want sympathy they can find it in the dictionary between 2 words I can not use on the board *smile*

    The poor…That is a choice one makes. One can work 3 jobs and survive. You can sweep the floors, you can wait tables and you can shovel horse hockey. That would allow someone to support themselves and not rely on government to support you. These people choose to not work. Sorry there. If I can do what I have to and make a living anyone else can.

    Immigrant? I take it as “undocumented” I believe is the politically correct phrase rather then my take which is a fact ILLEGAL.

    My parents were immigrants that came from Greece through the proper channels. They came, became educated, learned the language. They worked hard and busted their tails and became very successful. No reason immigrants can’t do it 50 years later.

    Illegal immigrants, Sympathy for a federal criminal? Not in my lifetime.

  40. Ed Ramirez says:

    Jimmy

    Conservatives are sounding like Limbaugh because conservatives believe in the things that Limbaugh talks about. Just like you liberals sound alike it is not so much that you are coping anyone in particular but you have the same belief structure. You seem to thing that because we say the same thing that we must not be thinking for ourselves. If there is any group that is not thinking for themselves it is Liberal Palin haters that speak almost in unison and at the same cadence.

    There is no major reason that a group that organizes a Tea party can not be a non profit but the person that is so adamant about the tax status of these organization is missing the whole point. Just follow the trail of the liberal 527C organizations.

  41. overthereme says:

    Ed,
    I think you are missing the point. People lose in this.
    The point is that a group claims they are a non profit. The last time the group here took donations a person walked off with people’s money given to be used for another Tea party. When the money disappeared(the website last week told the story of how the money disappeared). Who is held accountable? The people that gave money to this group last time tossed it out the window and this event had no money from the last event. Who paid the taxes on that $? No one. Last time they claimed it was a 527c group. (the president from the 4/15 event) He threw a fit, took the money and left never to be found. He claimed he was using the $ to support a candidate. (he could not be, he was a convicted felon) Now the group “revamped” They advertised they are a legal non profit. (although there is no IRS approval or DCA and no fund raising documentation according to both ) Now, where does the $ go? To someone’s bank account. Who’s ? They will not tell you? Why should one give to an organization that is doing the same duck and weave and is as as bad as the admin they are protesting? At least tell the public the truth. If you are a for profit according to the IRS, what is the big deal that they spend the money? Nothing. But at least be HONEST and TRANSPARENT. Also before one gives money one should be aware and check where their hard earned money is going. Also before one attends a rally for this cause (I agree the cause is good) if the group is saying they are something they are not, then the officers of this corporation need to be fiscally responsible, file their 990, give the charity they chose the money and pay for their expenses. Don’t advertise that you are a non profit. The current admin is raping the people as it is. Groups protesting this should not be if they are truly for the cause they are protesting.

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